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Post by Joshua Harnet on Apr 30, 2012 17:25:42 GMT
It starts today? Looks like I came in just in time. Can I still get in on this action?
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Post by Alydar on Apr 30, 2012 21:19:55 GMT
Umm... yes, I guess. Though I guess now it's starting tomorrow. Homework just piled on today... I'm adding you on and dealing new hands. Which means... we've added another deck to the rehearsal round! (7*8 = 56) So... I'll get to that... sometime, hopefully soon...
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Post by Joshua Harnet on Apr 30, 2012 22:29:02 GMT
Thanks much. Sorry for the inconvenience of having to deal out new hands, though.
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Post by Alydar on May 1, 2012 1:14:47 GMT
Eh, no problem. I finished a few things that I needed to do and just re-shuffled, dealt and assigned hands, so everything should be good. Now, I just need to finish the rest of the things that I need to do (non-LGT-related) and then set up everything in the confessionals. So... hopefully it will be done today? If not, I should almost definitely have time tomorrow!
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Post by Liar Game on May 1, 2012 3:08:13 GMT
The Rehearsal Round has started! You have 24 hours to make your claims! After that will come the 48-hour Bluffing Phase. Your available claims are as follows: - [Card Name Here] is the XXth highest card in my hand.
- [Card Name Here] is the XXth lowest card in my hand.
- [Card Name Here] is the XXth highest card of its suit in my hand.
- [Card Name Here] is the XXth lowest card of its suit in my hand.
- [Card Name Here] is the ONLY card of its suit in my hand.
More details, including your actual hand of cards, await you in your respective confessionals and inventories! Go there for further information on what you need to do for this round. Good luck, and I hope you have enjoy the game! This round will end at or past 3:08 am GMT on Wednesday, May 2nd, or 24 hours from this post.
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Kokuryu
Gambler #12
165 Poker Chips
Posts: 184
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Post by Kokuryu on May 1, 2012 8:29:38 GMT
Well then... Let's just say that the game will last 5 rounds. And... the rehearsal round will have X+1 cards per player, where X is the number of players. It will have a 24 hour Claim Phase, followed by a 48 hour Bluffing Phase, after which all cards used will be revealed. As Kokuryu said, ties in number are resolved by suit. So that only matters for the claim that it is the Xth highest or lowest card in your hand. If you make a claim that it is the highest/lowest of the suit or the only card in your hand of the suit, of course the suit does not matter. But for simplicity's sake and to help you guys out, I will be ordering your cards from least to greatest when I reveal them to you and give you updates. I'd use your inventories to keep track of your cards, but... with a dealer in the game, I won't be doing that! So, I'll either be using PMs, or there's something else that I could try out that I've been experimenting with. Also of note: say you have a joker and an ace (or two aces for that matter). The joker is automatically the highest and lowest card. However, the ace can now be the highest (if joker is lowest), the lowest (if joker is highest), the second lowest (if joker is lowest), or the second highest (if joker is highest). You must specify the arrangement of your variable cards (such as the jokers and aces) when you reveal your claim to me, so there is no confusion as to whether your claim should be considered true or false. Otherwise, I will count it as true so long as it is at all possible, using the cards in your hand. For example, say you had a joker and an ace of hearts, the two highest and lowest cards in the game. You put out your ace of hearts with the claim that it is the highest card, but you do not specify that you are counting the joker as high. Thus, I will count the claim as TRUE because there is a situation in which it is true. However, if you were to say that your joker was high and then said that the ace was your highest, then that claim would be FALSE as you intended. But there is one thing that you cannot do when putting out an ace or a joker as your claim. You may not put it out as your highest card while making it low. Likewise, you may not put it out as your lowest card while making it high. If you claim that it is your highest (or 2nd highest/3rd highest/4th highest/etc.), then it is counted as HIGH. If you claim that it is your lowest (or 2nd lowest/3rd lowest/4th lowest/etc.), then it is counted as LOW. I'm sure you understand why I feel a need to make this clear. *facepalm* Why didn't I see this before? I must have been skimming.... Anyway, the way that the rules I made decide said problem is this:(In the example that the player had a ace of diamonds, ace of spades and a joker in his hand.) When claiming XXth highest, the joker is above all cards, the ace of diamonds, ace of spades, and then the rest of the cards, in their specific order. (In said hand.) When claiming XXth lowest the joker is the lowest card, proceded by the aces in order.... Say someone had a hand of all the aces and a joker. True claims with the ace of hearts would be: Second highest, second lowest, highest in suit, lowest in suit, only of suit. True claims with the ace of clubs would be: Fourth highest, fourth lowest, highest in suit, lowest in suit, only of suit. I'm sorry for the ridiculous amount of time it took me to notice this. But the above rules were made so that claiming with aces and jokers wasn't ridiculously effective. (In the rules specified, aces and jokers are easily the most effective, as ANY claim you make with them could be true or false, just about, which ruins the analytical side of the game.) EDIT: Which also is why I sometimes end up actually using seventh highest as a claim when I've got seven cards in my hand. XD
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Post by Liar Game on May 1, 2012 13:41:52 GMT
Well then... Let's just say that the game will last 5 rounds. And... the rehearsal round will have X+1 cards per player, where X is the number of players. It will have a 24 hour Claim Phase, followed by a 48 hour Bluffing Phase, after which all cards used will be revealed. As Kokuryu said, ties in number are resolved by suit. So that only matters for the claim that it is the Xth highest or lowest card in your hand. If you make a claim that it is the highest/lowest of the suit or the only card in your hand of the suit, of course the suit does not matter. But for simplicity's sake and to help you guys out, I will be ordering your cards from least to greatest when I reveal them to you and give you updates. I'd use your inventories to keep track of your cards, but... with a dealer in the game, I won't be doing that! So, I'll either be using PMs, or there's something else that I could try out that I've been experimenting with. Also of note: say you have a joker and an ace (or two aces for that matter). The joker is automatically the highest and lowest card. However, the ace can now be the highest (if joker is lowest), the lowest (if joker is highest), the second lowest (if joker is lowest), or the second highest (if joker is highest). You must specify the arrangement of your variable cards (such as the jokers and aces) when you reveal your claim to me, so there is no confusion as to whether your claim should be considered true or false. Otherwise, I will count it as true so long as it is at all possible, using the cards in your hand. For example, say you had a joker and an ace of hearts, the two highest and lowest cards in the game. You put out your ace of hearts with the claim that it is the highest card, but you do not specify that you are counting the joker as high. Thus, I will count the claim as TRUE because there is a situation in which it is true. However, if you were to say that your joker was high and then said that the ace was your highest, then that claim would be FALSE as you intended. But there is one thing that you cannot do when putting out an ace or a joker as your claim. You may not put it out as your highest card while making it low. Likewise, you may not put it out as your lowest card while making it high. If you claim that it is your highest (or 2nd highest/3rd highest/4th highest/etc.), then it is counted as HIGH. If you claim that it is your lowest (or 2nd lowest/3rd lowest/4th lowest/etc.), then it is counted as LOW. I'm sure you understand why I feel a need to make this clear. *facepalm* Why didn't I see this before? I must have been skimming.... Anyway, the way that the rules I made decide said problem is this:(In the example that the player had a ace of diamonds, ace of spades and a joker in his hand.) When claiming XXth highest, the joker is above all cards, the ace of diamonds, ace of spades, and then the rest of the cards, in their specific order. (In said hand.) When claiming XXth lowest the joker is the lowest card, proceded by the aces in order.... Say someone had a hand of all the aces and a joker. True claims with the ace of hearts would be: Second highest, second lowest, highest in suit, lowest in suit, only of suit. True claims with the ace of clubs would be: Fourth highest, fourth lowest, highest in suit, lowest in suit, only of suit. I'm sorry for the ridiculous amount of time it took me to notice this. But the above rules were made so that claiming with aces and jokers wasn't ridiculously effective. (In the rules specified, aces and jokers are easily the most effective, as ANY claim you make with them could be true or false, just about, which ruins the analytical side of the game.) EDIT: Which also is why I sometimes end up actually using seventh highest as a claim when I've got seven cards in my hand. XD Well... that's a very late response... hmm... Since the rehearsal round has already started, the rules for the rehearsal round will be the ones that I had decided (e.g. you decide what they are: high or low). See, the reason that I made the decision that I did was that... this is an information-gathering game. And then, after that, it's a guessing game and weighing the odds to figure out how best to organize your votes to stay in the lead/near the top. I understand that there is some analytical aspect in this, but... I feel this is a game about lying and deciphering lies, in all actuality. What my rule did was make it so having a joker or an ace in your hand would make keeping them in your hand beneficial, as you can make other cards have different positions as well... But I see the point of your rule as well, so... I will be changing the rules per Kokuryu's suggestion for the main game. Please make note of that. In other words, if your claim says XXth HIGHEST card (whether in total or of a suit), ALL of your variable cards are considered HIGH. If your claim says XXth LOWEST card (whether in total or of a suit), ALL of your variable cards are considered LOW. For suit claims, I believe (in order to make this a more 'analytical' game?) jokers will count as no suit. In other words, they will not count as hearts, diamonds, clubs, or jokers. As such, any claim about a joker's suit is automatically false. Oh, and another thing that I will be adding: Every card used in a claim is discarded after that round. In other words, once a card has been chosen as a claim, it is out of the game. Thus, the number of cards per player in play will decrease by one each round, to a total of 7 cards per player at the end of the game. To accommodate this change, the rule (that I believe Kokuryu added at some point without me noticing?) that: will be changed to the following: In the event that you made more incorrect guesses than the amount of cards in your hand + the cards you would receive that round, you do not give or receive cards that round. All the cards in your hand at that point in time are out of the game, as are you. So, if you had 4 cards in your hand, put one out as the claim (so now you're down to 3), guessed wrong 4 times (so now you're down to -1), and bluffed successfully 2 times (so now you're up to 1), you are out of the game, as you cannot play with only one card. The 3 cards in your hand are discarded, and you are out of the game. The four people whom you guessed wrong about will not receive any of your cards. The two people who guessed wrong for you do not give you any of their cards. You basically make no change to the standings except for losing the game. Oh, and the cards per player will likely increase when this happens! I know these are a lot of changes, and I want to make sure that they're acceptable. So... I promote discussion! Talk about these changes! At any rate, they won't take effect until the full game (well, that last one takes effect now, but... there's only one round, so getting rid of the claim card does nothing), so don't worry about it, and focus on the rehearsal round for now. I will make sure that all rules are decided and in place before the full game starts.
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Post by Liar Game on May 1, 2012 15:12:40 GMT
You have a little bit less than 12 hours to make your claims! If they're not in your confessionals by the deadline, you will be unable to participate in the rest of the rehearsal round.
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Post by Joshua Harnet on May 1, 2012 16:32:39 GMT
Liar Game, I'm glad some of our thoughts on this game were similar, although you noticed and figured out more than I did. I'm posting my thoughts on the new rule in the confessional.
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Post by Liar Game on May 2, 2012 3:08:15 GMT
We appear to have a strain of inactivity circulating among the players. Three people have not sent in claims. As such, they are each considered to have guessed wrong for each of the opponents, resulting in a net card loss of 4 cards (give 6 away, receive 2 from other inactives). In addition, they cannot gain cards from active players, as they are assumed to have guessed correctly. They also lose a random card as a claim, so each of the inactives has a total of 3 cards left, with the others chosen and given away randomly. Now for the claims!
Iain7: "My Ace of Clubs is the 8th highest card in my hand." Joshua: "My 10 of Hearts is the 4th highest card in my hand." Kokuryu: "My Jack of Clubs is the 5th highest card in my hand." NastyMan: "I have a Queen of Clubs!" - Inactive Perlamonta: "I have a 6 of Spades!" - Inactive Riku: "I have a 5 of Spades!" - Inactive ShadowFire: "My 8 of Clubs is the highest Club in my hand."
It appears like everyone has high cards! Can everyone decipher who is bluffing? Let the Bluffing Phase begin! You have 48 hours from the time that the polls are posted in your vault to make a decision. Yes, they are polls; yes, you may retract and revote as much as you'd like before the automatic locking of the polls; and yes, they are all posted within one or two minutes of each other, so it is indeed fair. If you don't remember your vote, you can simply retract and revote. Or, you can PM the admin account, but it may take a little bit of time before you get a response. You have as many votes as there were legitimate claims (aside from yours), so each player has 3 votes to spend on their polls. Any decisions not made will be counted as false. Any unclear decisions (e.g. you say someone is both lying AND telling the truth) will be counted as false.
The correct rulings of the claims will be revealed at the end of the round, as well as what each player decided. Then, card counts will be determined and revealed. The winner of the rehearsal round will be the player with the most cards at the end. They get no prize aside from the pride of a job well done!
The Bluffing Phase will end after 3:08 am GMT on Friday, May 4th. Polls will close at around that time, and results will be revealed later.
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Kokuryu
Gambler #12
165 Poker Chips
Posts: 184
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Post by Kokuryu on May 2, 2012 6:58:37 GMT
@rule updates: Yeah, sorry about how late it was....>.> Actually, with jokers, they are their own individual suit, so 'only of suit', 'highest of suit', 'lowest of suit' would all be true, not that you'd ever do it, except in the case of 'only of suit', as if you have any other jokers in your hand then it's false. Although, the way you put it works just as well, so I don't really see the need to implement this rule... Huh? What? But I could've sworn.... What the heck? No, I didn't run that rule past you, incredibly sorry, although you've already changed it to something that works much better, so I don't see any need for me to say anything more on the matter. Hmm... not picking back up claims.... interesting. It will certainly change things from the game that used the same card for my claim every single turn.... I forgot to mention, but the original version of this game had a rule that after every circulation, (Or every round in this case) the players dis-carded a card from their hand. The difference between this rule and the rule that you implemented isn't all that much, but in your rule setting I won't be able to do my favorite 'claim with 1 card every turn.' technique. Oh yeah, and as to the analytical part of the game, and the usefulness of aces? well, aces and jokers are VERY useful, for giving to people at least. If you gave someone an ace, then you immediately know that claims claiming highest or lowest with a non-ace card doesn't work for the person you gave the card too, and it goes one heck of a lot further than that. EXTREME example, let's say that 4 players in an 8 player game united, and then conspired to vote false on every claim in the game, making all of their claims false as well. Now, if a claim they voted on was false, then they just didn't give any cards to that person, however, if someone's claim was 'true' then they each gave him a card, now, because they are in an alliance, they then know 4 of the cards in that players hand, which gives them an extreme advantage over that person, as they could give him four aces, etc. to make it so that they have great insight onto his next claim. The next round, they vote true on all the claims made by people they didn't give cards to, and vote what they believe to be the correct guess on all the people they gave cards to the last turn, rinse, dry, repeat. This wouldn't be possible without solid card status.... Also, I once figured out half the cards on the board in an RL game, so yes, analytics is something that is in this game.
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Post by Liar Game on May 3, 2012 2:45:02 GMT
Yeah, jokers are being counted as no suit. So, really... while a claim related to suit of a joker would be accepted, it would not be a good idea... So it's easier to just say not to do it. And anyway, even if a player had 2 jokers... multiples of a card still count as the same card, right? And yes, you won't be picking up claims. It should be interesting. Also, with all the rule changes and everything... I don't feel like searching through the first post for all the things that need to be changed. So I'll be posting a new rules post before the full game starts. And... you've all got a little over 24 hours left before the Rehearsal Round ends. Make sure your decisions are in before the round ends!
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Kokuryu
Gambler #12
165 Poker Chips
Posts: 184
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Post by Kokuryu on May 3, 2012 7:13:40 GMT
Yeah, jokers are being counted as no suit. So, really... while a claim related to suit of a joker would be accepted, it would not be a good idea... So it's easier to just say not to do it. And anyway, even if a player had 2 jokers... multiples of a card still count as the same card, right? And yes, you won't be picking up claims. It should be interesting. Also, with all the rule changes and everything... I don't feel like searching through the first post for all the things that need to be changed. So I'll be posting a new rules post before the full game starts. And... you've all got a little over 24 hours left before the Rehearsal Round ends. Make sure your decisions are in before the round ends! Actually, I could change all of those things in the first post. And multiples of cards when you make the 'only one of suit' doesn't apply, say you have three 8 of spades in your hand, and no other spades in your hand at all, it just wouldn't be legit to claim that you had no other spades in your hand, now would it? Also, just to define something, if you have an eight of spades, a seven of clubs, two fours of diamonds and a two of hearts, claiming the seven of clubs as the third lowest card in your hand would be false. That card would be your fourth lowest, however, if you were to claim the with a four of diamonds, it would be as if the other four of diamonds wasn't there, as in if you vote XXth highest, then it's regarded as if the other four of diamonds is above it, if you vote XXth lowest, then it's regarded as if the other four of diamonds is below it, etc. That's what I meant, sorry if I was unclear. EDIT: Okay, done, edited all the new rules into the first post.... anything I missed?
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Post by Liar Game on May 3, 2012 11:05:58 GMT
Need to go soon, but I'll look over the first post later. Either way, I'll probably do another post just to make sure that everything makes sense to me. Oh, and there may be some rules that I've been thinking of that I just haven't said here yet. Things have been chaotic lately, and I don't remember quite what I've said and haven't said. Either way, I'm changing your rule for that. If, for the rehearsal round, you had two of a card in your hand with the other six cards different, you would think of it as if you had only seven cards in your hand. Doubles do not and will not count as an extra card in this game. So you could say that it's the only one of its suit, even if you have two of them. And it would not interfere with the placement of other cards (as in high/low). I'm sure this adds an different type of strategy, no? And, since you've played before, it wouldn't be completely fair to keep everything the same... As I said, I will be writing up a new rules post (despite your edits, sorry that you did that before I got on to tell you), and there could be rules changes there. I just need to make sure that I know exactly how I'll be running the game and everything. And just so I'm sure everything makes sense to me...
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Kokuryu
Gambler #12
165 Poker Chips
Posts: 184
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Post by Kokuryu on May 3, 2012 11:32:50 GMT
Sure sure, I'm perfectly fine with it, I just needed to make the first post match the new one, so that it's easier for people to check up on the rules. Also, I don't think I've played with enough people before to have a two deck game.... Your rule is as good as any there, as I don't have any experience on how things work as they are. But it probably is good that you're changing up the rules, as indeed I have played this before, and so has shadow for that matter. I'll edit the new rule for duplicates into the first post.
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