|
Post by Alydar on Jul 20, 2012 17:12:52 GMT
Now that I've been reminded of this and have looked over the game a little (still need to continue and all), I have a few questions. 1. Do players know who is on their team? This may seem like it's a dumb question, but it could be run either way. 2. Are players told who they're paired against each round? If so, is it before decisions are sent in or after? If before, is it at the beginning of each round or at the beginning of the game? 3. I know you say that pairings are randomly chosen, but shouldn't each player go against each opposing player at least once (or if there are enough players, at least twice)? And tonight, when I hopefully look at this more, I'll have more questions to ask, one of which being if my understanding of the rules of the game is correct. Oh, and people! Sign up for this, so it can be run!
|
|
Esterdi
Gambler #24
175 Poker Chips
Posts: 24
|
Post by Esterdi on Jul 21, 2012 18:53:04 GMT
If I forgot to say sorry, but when Risking you must risk 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. No other quantity allowed.
1. Yes. 2. The pairings are randomly and secretly chosen and set in stone pregame. They don't change. 3. I thought it would be nicer without partner change. This way, you add another layer of strategy as everyone is trying to figure out who is his partner.
|
|
|
Post by 10k on Jul 21, 2012 19:21:15 GMT
I have a question about those forced decisions which can come up. If we all Passed, say my team all had a positive score and wants to play it safe, it's treated as Risk 5, and if we all Risk, say all us were ambitious in getting points, we all lose, but how are they counted towards the minimum of two Pass and two Risk requirements?
|
|
Esterdi
Gambler #24
175 Poker Chips
Posts: 24
|
Post by Esterdi on Jul 21, 2012 19:28:50 GMT
That is an excellent question! I'm surprised I didn't consider it.
The maximum of 5 pass/risk per person is decision-based, not event-based. Which is to say, if you risked 4 times, on the 5th round everyone in your team passed and thus you were treated as risking 5, then YES, on the sixth round you can risk again.
|
|
|
Post by Alydar on Jul 21, 2012 19:43:18 GMT
3. I thought it would be nicer without partner change. This way, you add another layer of strategy as everyone is trying to figure out who is his partner. Well, I see I had misunderstood something. I thought it was a different partner each time, not the same one throughout. If that's the case... I'll look over the rules again with that in mind!
|
|
|
Post by Iain7 on Jul 25, 2012 7:51:27 GMT
I guess for five poker chips I'll sign up, think I'm winning enough from you in the dice game
|
|
|
Post by Alydar on Jul 25, 2012 13:34:38 GMT
My understanding of the rules of the game:
Signup fee is 5 Poker chips.
There are two teams, evenly split (e.g. there must be an even number of players). Each player on each team has someone on the opposing team who they're paired up with, though they don't know who. They do, however, know who is on their own team (though I think it would be interesting, and potentially better for small groups, if players didn't know who's on their team. Just something I'm considering).
So you have A vs. B, C vs. D, E vs. F, etc. On each of the 7 rounds (48 hours?), each player chooses either Pass or Risk. If they choose Risk, they must also choose a number from 1 to 5 to risk. Potential outcomes are as follows:
Pass vs. Pass = no change Pass vs. Risk X = Risker wins X Risk X vs. Risk Y; X > Y = Risker (X) loses X/2, rounded up; Risker (Y) wins X - Y Risk X vs. Risk X = both players lose X
(Considering these are the only possible outcomes, may I suggest an edit for Risks? Instead of Risk 1-5, have Risk Low and Risk High, each with a value. This way, there's more chance for conflict than before. I'm willing to hear arguments for or against this option.)
One thing that comes up is that when everyone on a team Passes, they're considered as Risk 5 (the highest). When everyone on a team Risks (regardless of amount), they each lose 5 and nothing else happens.
Players must Risk at least twice out of the seven rounds and must Pass at least twice out of the seven rounds. The remaining three rounds can be any combination of the two.
As the game continues, scores are not public. Each player knows their individual scores, but the team scores are not revealed. However, on the 2nd and 6th (2nd to last) rounds, the team in the lead is revealed. On the chance that a tie happens, the team in the lead will be randomized. You will not be informed of a tie (I'm adding this little part).
There are two other rules in play, as described below: Rule of Betrayal - If you feel like you are the player in the game with the most points and that you are on the losing team, you may betray your team. What this means is that if the opposing team wins and you indeed have the most points, you will be considered the player with the most points on the winning team for terms of payout. If both of those conditions are not met, you don't win (though if you have a positive balance, you still get 5 chips?).
Rule of Suspicion - If you think someone has betrayed, you can suspect them. You can only suspect one person during the course of the game. If that person successfully betrayed, you win 5 chips from him/her. This is done on a first come, first serve basis, so if there's not enough chips to hand out, too bad.
The two above rules are enacted by PMing the dealer indicating that you do so (e.g. "I Betray my team.", "I Suspect ThisPerson.", "I use the Rule of Betrayal", "I use the Rule of Suspicion on ThisPerson").
Winning At the end of the game, everything that's happened in the game is revealed. Well, pretty much everything. The matchups are revealed, the individual rounds with point distributions per player and per team are revealed, and the winner is determined, along with any successful betrayals and suspicions (I'll keep unsuccessful ones secret unless they matter).
Each player with a positive score wins their signup fee back (5 Poker Chips).
The player on the winning team (or successful Betrayer, if it applies) with the most points wins 5 extra Poker Chips per player with 0 or fewer points. If there's a tie, they split winnings. If everyone has positive points, the winner(s) wins 5 Poker Chips.
So far, 10k, Esterdi, and Iain7 have signed up.
There are questions and potential edits throughout. Please correct me if anything is wrong. Below are the questions/edits from above.
1. For small groups at least, have players not know who is on their team. It could be interesting, and there are definitely pros and cons. What do you guys think?
2. Instead of Risk 1-5, have Risk Low and Risk High. It does basically the same thing, but it becomes more likely that players will come into conflict with each other than before. I don't know actual numbers that I'd use, but probably 5 and 10 (So 5 vs 10 = +5/-5. Though change Risk same to just lose 5 each instead of lose amount? It just seems that a lot of the game is based on 5's.). Again, up for discussion, for whether or not to use it and for what numbers there are.
3. At rounds 2 and 6, ties are not announced.
4. How long are the rounds? Are they 48 hours? More? Probably not less...
|
|
Esterdi
Gambler #24
175 Poker Chips
Posts: 24
|
Post by Esterdi on Jul 25, 2012 16:04:39 GMT
0. You must mention that only players with positive NONZERO score receive 5 chips (otherwise it's quite easier).
1. Hmmm sure, makes sense.
2. I honestly think it works better with actual numbers that what you're proposing...so I am against this point.
3. I like this.
4. Your choice. 48 seems ok.
cookie. Iain, I'll be the one laughing when I win.
|
|
|
Post by Alydar on Jul 25, 2012 16:36:35 GMT
0. You must mention that only players with positive NONZERO score receive 5 chips (otherwise it's quite easier). Thought it was mentioned in there. Oh well, that is indeed part of the rules. 2. I honestly think it works better with actual numbers that what you're proposing...so I am against this point. Well, let's see what other people think as well? Also, I'll run some tests, randomizing for a small group both ways and see how it works. I realize randomization isn't necessarily the best way, but, well, I'm lacking playtesters and all.
|
|
Esterdi
Gambler #24
175 Poker Chips
Posts: 24
|
Post by Esterdi on Jul 25, 2012 17:46:39 GMT
Sure, I'm not in charge or anything.
Just think of it as 1 vote contra and 1 vote pro (you) so far.
|
|
|
Post by Alydar on Jul 25, 2012 21:02:50 GMT
(There were playtests here that took up a lot of space. Talk to me if you want to see them.)
Say what you will about randomization, this "playtest" does show some of what I'm talking about. The second game was much closer in pretty much all respects and doesn't have the tendency to keep everyone in the positives. I'll show you the reason for this with a breakdown of potential moves.
Scenario 1: Pass vs. Pass = no change, net gain of +0. Scenario 2: Pass vs. Risk = change; Risker gains amount risked; positive net gain Scenario 3: Risk vs. Risk; different risk = little, if any change; one risker gains X, other loses Y; max net gain +1, max net loss -2 (for current rules, that is) Scenario 4: Risk vs. Risk; same risk = slight to great decrease; both players lose X, which ranges from 1-5 in the first setup to 5 or 10 in the second Scenario 5: All Pass = Risking high -> any of Scenario 2-4; variable gain, likely positive Scenario 6: All Risk = All lose 5 -> net loss
So, it's very likely that net gain will be positive, and the likelihood of someone dropping into the negatives is actually pretty low, unless something strange is happening or someone is playing horribly. Either way, the only way for a legitimate net loss is for all players on a team to risk (Scenario 6) or for both opponents to risk the same amount (20% chance, ignoring potential passes for original rules; 50% chance for mine).
Of course, having different risks can cause someone to fail, but it's just as likely to end up evening out, especially when players start winning points through their opponents passing.
Basically, the above is my argument as to why I'm changing the rules to Risk High/Low vs. Risk 1-5. And that's how it's going to be unless someone can give me a good argument to keep it as is.
Oh, another thing. If everyone is in the positives, and there's a tie for first place (whether through betrayal or not), there's a maximum of 2 players who can win the bonus 5 Poker Chips. This will be determined by whoever was in the lead first and longest (e.g. was 1st from 3rd round onward). If this can't be resolved, it won't be.
|
|
|
Post by 10k on Jul 26, 2012 2:07:11 GMT
I am currently against this change. I'll send you a PM soon explaining why. The gist of it is that there would be no point in arbitrarily limiting player options. The game is good as-is.
|
|
|
Post by Alydar on Jul 26, 2012 3:10:33 GMT
Well if we've got multiple people against it, I guess we'll keep it as is and see how it goes. A problem with my assumptions could very well be that I have no idea how strategy will work... Oh well. I'm going to edit out the playtests and have them elsewhere so they're not taking up all this space. If someone wants to see them, just ask!
|
|