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Post by Liar Game on Jul 4, 2012 13:36:18 GMT
Do we need to find another hidden thing on the machine? The right attendant takes your silver token and responds, "No, of course you don't." If you instead of the current condition had a similar one but with an inverted effect ( so when you would originally have answered "truthfully" you would instead answer "not truthfully" and vice veresa ), would you describe the statement "You can predict whether the Left Attendant's answer will be truthful or not before he has answered if you know what his condition is" as true? The right attendant takes your silver token and responds, "The answer to that question is no." The right attendant takes your silver token and responds, "Why yes, indeed it is." The right attendant takes your silver token and responds, "Yes you do." - In order to win the large jackpot, one must push the buttons now available, fiddle with the knobs now available, pull the levers now available and/or insert silver tokens into the machine, and nothing more. - You will answer truthfully to this question, Is an even number of the above statements true ( bearing in mind that 0 is indeed an even number ) ? The right attendant takes your silver token and responds, "Yes there are."
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Post by perlamonta on Jul 5, 2012 8:43:56 GMT
- The condition of yours is related to the reply count in this thread or the thread of the slot machine. - You will answer truthfully to the question in this post.
Is an even number of the above statements in this post true?
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Post by Liar Game on Jul 5, 2012 14:59:17 GMT
- The condition of yours is related to the reply count in this thread or the thread of the slot machine. - You will answer truthfully to the question in this post. Is an even number of the above statements in this post true? The right attendant takes your silver token and replies, "Yes there are."
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Post by perlamonta on Jul 6, 2012 12:26:59 GMT
- The condition of yours is related to the reply-count in the thread of "Spinning the Slot Machine!". - You answer the question in this post truthfully.
Is an even number of the above statements in this post true?
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Post by Liar Game on Jul 8, 2012 4:10:11 GMT
- The condition of yours is related to the reply-count in the thread of "Spinning the Slot Machine!". - You answer the question in this post truthfully. Is an even number of the above statements in this post true? The right attendant takes your silver token and replies, "Yes, there are."
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Post by perlamonta on Jul 8, 2012 10:21:57 GMT
- You are the "Left Attendant". - You answer the question in this post truthfully.
Is an even number of the above statements in this post true?
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Post by Liar Game on Jul 9, 2012 12:03:08 GMT
- You are the "Left Attendant". - You answer the question in this post truthfully. Is an even number of the above statements in this post true? The right attendant takes a silver token and responds, "Yes there are."
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Post by perlamonta on Jul 9, 2012 15:42:28 GMT
This is a paradox: According to your answer there is an even number of true statements in my post. The statements are as follows: You are the left attendant You answer the following question truthfully There are exactly two possibilities when this is true: When there are two statements true or when there are zero. If there are two, then it follows that he is either the Left Attendant and is answering the question truly. If there are zero then he is not the Left Attendant and he is answering the question falsely. However, if he is answering the question falsely and say "yes" then he is not actually answering the question falsely, since he is giving a true answer. Of course, he could be lying to begin with. In that case, there is an odd number of statements true. So since we already know that he is lying, the statements that is true must be the fact that he is the Left Attendant. The problem is, we already know that he is not the Left Attendant, meaning that there are only two real possibilities: - He is also telling the truth, in which case an odd number of statements are correct and he answers "no" - He is also lying, in which case an even number ( 0 ) of statements are true, but since he is lying he will obviously say "no" But he didn't. This is an outcome that defies possibility! However, I have already designed a couple of theories that will make up for this: - Nowhere in the rules they said that the Attendants are omniscient and rational. He might not know whether he answers truthfully or not, whether or not he is the Left Attendant, or even that 0 or 2 is an even number ( and that 1 is not ). For the purposes of education: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parity_of_zeroHe might also have been confused by my question and thought it meant something differently - Continuing that line of thought, the rules never said that the Attendants will answer any question either truthfully or falsely. An alternative is that Attendants believe certain things to be either true or false depending on when, where, how or by whom the question was conceived. If this is true, then that makes this problem slightly more difficult. - The Attendant either uses loopholes in my formulation in order to answer a question different from the one I intended to ask, or he is purposely skewing things around for me due some personal grudge. In layman's terms: "Because f*ck you, that's why!" Although I would not be surprized if it turned out to be the first option, I have a feeling we should start with examining the second.
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Post by Liar Game on Jul 9, 2012 16:45:13 GMT
This is a paradox: According to your answer there is an even number of true statements in my post. The statements are as follows: You are the left attendant You answer the following question truthfully There are exactly two possibilities when this is true: When there are two statements true or when there are zero. If there are two, then it follows that he is either the Left Attendant and is answering the question truly. If there are zero then he is not the Left Attendant and he is answering the question falsely. However, if he is answering the question falsely and say "yes" then he is not actually answering the question falsely, since he is giving a true answer. Of course, he could be lying to begin with. In that case, there is an odd number of statements true. So since we already know that he is lying, the statements that is true must be the fact that he is the Left Attendant. The problem is, we already know that he is not the Left Attendant, meaning that there are only two real possibilities: - He is also telling the truth, in which case an odd number of statements are correct and he answers "no" - He is also lying, in which case an even number ( 0 ) of statements are true, but since he is lying he will obviously say "no" But he didn't. This is an outcome that defies possibility! However, I have already designed a couple of theories that will make up for this: - Nowhere in the rules they said that the Attendants are omniscient and rational. He might not know whether he answers truthfully or not, whether or not he is the Left Attendant, or even that 0 or 2 is an even number ( and that 1 is not ). For the purposes of education: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parity_of_zeroHe might also have been confused by my question and thought it meant something differently - Continuing that line of thought, the rules never said that the Attendants will answer any question either truthfully or falsely. An alternative is that Attendants believe certain things to be either true or false depending on when, where, how or by whom the question was conceived. If this is true, then that makes this problem slightly more difficult. - The Attendant either uses loopholes in my formulation in order to answer a question different from the one I intended to ask, or he is purposely skewing things around for me due some personal grudge. In layman's terms: "Because f*ck you, that's why!" Although I would not be surprized if it turned out to be the first option, I have a feeling we should start with examining the second. You assume that you have some idea what the true/false condition is for this attendant. Maybe you do, maybe you do not, but I assure you that I do and that I have answered your question as it should be answered. This is not the first time an answer which seems to make no sense has appeared, and it very well will not be the last. I will inform you that each question is indeed answered either truthfully or falsely to the best of each attendant's abilities, as the rules would imply. We deal these games in the interest of fairness, not personal vendettas. Any question that can not be legitimately answered truthfully or falsely or from which no evaluation of true/false could be reasonably discerned by one who knows the condition will obviously not be answered as such. Despite this being an arguably difficult condition, there are hints and clues, discrepancies and patterns scattered throughout the questions asked, and it is possible that someone could discover the condition, though it will take some work. However, I would prefer that you keep posts relating to strategy or confusion that you have with this game, especially when written in large detail, in your confessionals and chatlogs. It's in your best interest, as it can prevent others from noticing something they would otherwise have missed. But if a notice or an answer that I would give in regards to something posted in confessionals would be too important (because it greatly clarifies rules or the like) to give to a single person, I will make sure to answer it in a public thread or not answer it at all, depending on the situation and the asker's response to the question being made public. For example, this response right here could potentially fit in here, though it was originally public.
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Post by perlamonta on Jul 9, 2012 17:43:15 GMT
- You are the left attendant. - You answer the question in this post truthfully.
Are there only even numbers of the true statements in this post ( this question, of course, excluded, if you think of counting questions as statements )?
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Post by Liar Game on Jul 9, 2012 18:48:29 GMT
Could you clarify that question please? Particularly this part that seems a jumble of words that don't quite make sense... Are there only even numbers of the true statements in this post? Because as it's written you could be asking if the post contains only even numbers belonging to the true statements. Or you could be asking if the only even numbers that exist belong to the true statements in this post. Or some other thing that doesn't quite make sense. And none of these examples I've given are what I assume you're asking... Once this has been clarified, so I can figure out what specifically you're asking, so I don't end up messing something up and confusing you further, I will answer this and whatever other questions have been asked since this question was posted (i.e. Iain7's).
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Post by perlamonta on Jul 9, 2012 19:26:58 GMT
First I asked if an even number of statements in the post was true, and you kept saying "Yes, there are", which means there are three alternatives ( at least )
1. You kept screwing up 2. It is actually supposed to be "are an even number of statements true" or "are even numbers of statements true", 3. Somehow there are more than a single number of statements that are true
So I am asking if, amongst the two first statements in my post, [ two statements∧zero statements ] are true, and [ one statement ] is not true. If Yes, that means that [ two statements∧zero statements ] are true and [ one statement ] is not true. If No, that means that [ one statement ] is true, regardless of the condition of the other numbers.
Confusing? Well, since I designed my formulation to provide a trustable answer regardless if Right Attendant speaks truthfully or not, even if he chooses True/False randomly, it means that I am now beyond random, so be prepared for confusion =P
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Post by Liar Game on Jul 9, 2012 19:47:27 GMT
First I asked if an even number of statements in the post was true, and you kept saying "Yes, there are", which means there are three alternatives ( at least ) 1. You kept screwing up 2. It is actually supposed to be "are an even number of statements true" or "are even numbers of statements true", 3. Somehow there are more than a single number of statements that are true So I am asking if, amongst the two first statements in my post, [ two statements∧zero statements ] are true, and [ one statement ] is not true. If Yes, that means that [ two statements∧zero statements ] are true and [ one statement ] is not true. If No, that means that [ one statement ] is true, regardless of the condition of the other numbers. Confusing? Well, since I designed my formulation to provide a trustable answer regardless if Right Attendant speaks truthfully or not, even if he chooses True/False randomly, it means that I am now beyond random, so be prepared for confusion =P Oh, so that's part of what you were getting confused about. I just corrected grammatically when I gave my answer. Technically, your question should have had "are" instead of "is" as there are zero right or there are two right. The only case of it being "is" would be when there is one right, or when it's odd. Since I only answered "Yes," I kept correcting it to "are." But what you're saying is that you want to ask what I'm quoting below (making edits to your original question based on your response to my request for clarification). - You are the left attendant. - You answer the question in this post truthfully. Of the two statements listed above in this post, are two or zero true and one false? The right attendant takes your silver token and responds, "Yes." Take what you want from that question, as I'm moving on to the left attendant for now to do those questions...
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Post by 10k on Jul 10, 2012 0:40:54 GMT
Do I have 5 coconuts?
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Post by perlamonta on Jul 10, 2012 13:31:33 GMT
[ S ]=[ "You are the left attendant", "You answer the question in this post truthfully", "Zero elements in [ S ] are correct" ]
Are an even number of elements in [ S ] correct?
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